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Rise of Legends Heaven » Forums » Game Modifications » Mod Ideas - Subnations
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Topic Subject:Mod Ideas - Subnations
alincarpetman
Afreet
posted 11-21-13 08:43 PM EDT (US)         
Motter posted this in the hero mod download comment area:

Posted on 11/07/13 @ 08:02 AM

In my original expansion from what I recall there were additions for both skirmish and the campaign. For Skirmish I had added Ix and Petruzzo since they got killed in the CTW, I also enabled the Supply Truck, did lots of changes to neutral sites, kept Giacomo in his "horsey" mode till he hits Level 4, many other things I can't recall off-hand. Mostly that mod was just trying to see what all I could do plus trying to enable all the unused/underused units/buildings/spells. I was told that some things were very unbalanced in the game which I don't doubt, as I say I pretty much just trying to get it all in there whether it was balanced or not.

As for my other nations that's what I've been working on lately, I so far have:

Vinci - Giacomo, Petruzzo, Lenora, Carlini, Battaglion, Venza, Distruzio
Master Unit: Scavenger Boss

Vennucians - Doge, Pulitore
Master Unit: Land Leviathan

Alim (Sand) - Dakhla, Desert Giacomo, Arri, Belisari
Master Unit: Thuran

Dark Alin (Dark Glass) - Sawu, Memphis, Adromolek
Master Units: Glass Dragon, Bazeek, Mega Glass Golem

Desert Monsters (Fire) - Damanhur, Arri
Master Unit: Master Fire Golem

Cuotl - Czin, Xil, Ix, Shok
Master Unit: City of Vengeance

Fallen - Giacomo, Yontash, Kakoolha
Master Unit: Moon Gorilla

I plan to further break down the Vinci into

Mianans - Giacomo, Petruzzo, Carlini, Battaglion
Pirata - Lenora, Venza
Scavengers - Distruzio

The Scavengers will be for hard core people only as they will be quite outmatched, I plan to maybe do a few nations that way, some "sub-nations", like Condottieri who be mostly old school with horses and guys with swords, no advanced tech like Juggernauts or Steam Cannons, also I may split the 4 gods up into seperate nations, maybe the Dark Alin into 3 one led by Sawu, one Memphis, one Adromolek, also put Moon Giacomo into his own nation, keep the Fallen more primitive, we'll see, any ideas are welcome.

Big problem with new nations tho is that you have to individually add them to each and every map, which is something everyone will have to do themselves on their computer, to include all of the map files would be to big of a file. WHY they did it that way I'll never know, likely would have been corrected with a patch if the game had been more popular.
AuthorReplies:
thejango40
Zekeling
posted 11-22-13 11:11 AM EDT (US)     1 / 4       
Kinda weird having Scavenger Boss for the vinci when there's a scavenger nation, but you might be running out of master units.
motter28218
Zekeling
posted 11-24-13 05:13 PM EDT (US)     2 / 4       
The Scavenger Boss will be the Master Unit for the Scavengers, I did come up with a MU for the Vinci/Mianans, kinda borrowed the idea from the CTW, not revealing it just yet tho.
alincarpetman
Afreet
posted 12-05-13 08:52 PM EDT (US)     3 / 4       
More info Motter mentioned in a download discussion thread:

Motter:
Big problem with new nations tho is that you have to individually add them to each and every map, which is something everyone will have to do themselves on their computer, to include all of the map files would be to big of a file. WHY they did it that way I'll never know, likely would have been corrected with a patch if the game had been more popular.

Alincarpetman:
Just out of curiosity - how big would the file be including all maps modded with all the nations? We could use a non-HG site to host that download if it's too big.

Motter:
@Alin: The map folder is over 103MB, and that does not include the CTW maps. The real issue tho is as I say I would have to go to each and every map and attach each nation to it, it would be quite a big task. I only use a few of my maps right now, however if there's interest in my nation mod when I'm done I'll upload it and maybe someone else will be up to the challenge and can attach the nations to the maps and upload them somewhere else.

--My reply: The 103mb is within HG upload limits. However since doing this is a pain, my suggestion would be that only 1 map could be made for each nation category.

So all the Vinci subnations can be added to a Vinci grassy land map, all the Alin subnations added to a desert land map and all the Cuotl subnations added to a jungle land map. One slot should be left for the human player to play with/against the subnations on each map. So a 6, 7 or 8 player map might need to be edited to feature all the subnations and 1 human player. You could also have another slot free for a "regular" non-modded Vinci, Alin and Cuotl computer player also - it would be fun to play a game and observe all the players to see what they create and do.

So a total of 3 maps, 1 for each nation setting. If others want to mix up the nations or do something different then they can make/edit their own maps as well. Maybe typing up some instructions on how to add subnations to a map could help people out in doing so.

As for multiplayer I'm not sure how that would work. More player slots would have to be left open as human on a map, depending on how many players there would be. So if you had 3 human players that would be in addition to the number of computer ai subnations. And if someone wants to play as a certain subnation, I'm not sure if this will be an option selectable from the game setup menu or will have to be added manually to a map in the scenario editor and loaded as a scenario.

Before anyone does all that we need to know if this mod works on multiplayer at all. Some people had problems setting up Motter's expansion for multiplayer so I don't know - we'll have to hear from the people who try multiplayer.
alincarpetman
Afreet
posted 12-10-13 03:53 PM EDT (US)     4 / 4       
Hey these are just my subnation ideas which are flexible as it was difficult to categorize some of the units so it can get confusing due to all the options. Therefore it's a mix and match type situation where some things are interchangeable and could be filed/tweaked up a bit in multiple groups.

1 Vinci - 5/6 subnations
2 Alin - 5/6 subnations
3 Cuotl - 5/6 subnations
4 Kahan - 1 (used in Cuotl)

H = heroes
RB = regular buildings
RU = regular units
UU = unique units (unique to their subnation, some featured in campaign)
UB = unique buildings
MB = master building (sometimes creates master or other unique unit)
MU = master unit or unique unit (almost like another hero)
W = wonder (another type of master building)

- Wonders may be buildable from the menu or maybe a city can upgrade to a wonder, though the graphic change for that will be immediate and look weird. Also W and MB can be interchangeable.
- Not sure if all of the subnations will get all the regular buildings (such as all the Vinci Research Labs) and units or be limited to some. For example air units - the Pirata will have more of them but need ground troops to capture buildings so maybe they can be given an Inn with mercenaries or a Barracks with 1 generic soldier. So would Miana get an Aerodrome? And if so, what limited units? Here's the list of heroes/buildings/units.

This also applies to the Alin and Cuotl - some subnations will probably be more powerful than others, so maybe making some of the more powerful subnations buildings/units more expensive/slower to make and the weaker subnations cheaper/faster to make could be an option. Or they could be given 1 of their nation's unique timonium/wealth generating building as buildable: Vinci - Alchemy Lab/Workshop or Engraver/Mint, Alin - Greater Vault or Treasure Hoard/Stash and Cuotl Great/Sepulcher or Great/Transmuter for bonus resources.

So subnations such as the Condotierri and Beserkers might have to rely on strength of overwhelming numbers. I think that actually could work and would make things more diverse and fun instead of having every subnation exactly the same in some sense - it'll make the player think and strategize more with what they have at hand.


1 Vinci

Miana
H Giacomo (Horse/Walker)
H Petruzzo
H Carlini
H Marco (Captain of Miana)
H Marco (Merchant of Silea)
RU Supply Truck
RU Imperial Musketeers/Grenadiers/Fusiliers
RU Super/Clockwork Man
RU Heavy/Demolition Clockwork Man
RU Clockwork Sniper
RU Heavy/Clockwork Spider
RU Burrowing Spider
RU Super/Steam Cannon
RU Ultra/Juggernaut or Prototype/Laser Tank
MB Miana Palace
MU Vinci Scientist
W Imperial Observatory


Pirata
H Lenora
H Venza
RU Renegade Musketeers
RU Scout/Improved/Super/Ultra Flyer
RU Spy Scout
RU Gun Flyer
RU Improved/Super/Pirata Flyer
RU Air Destroyer/Cruiser
RU Siege Zeppelin
RU Improved/Heavy/Cargo Dirigible
MB Sky Crusher (anti-air defense - there would need to be other players with some air units for this to get the most use but it could also have border push and population bonus maybe)
MU Pirata Base (flying support/transport dirigible)
W Pirata City (enabled with some units/spells/techs)


Scavengers (of Monte Laguna)
H Distruzio
H Zeke
RU Clockwork Miner
RU Clockwork Foreman
RU Scavenger Grunt/Clockwork Man
RU Scavenger Clockwork Miner
RU Scavenger Spider
RU Scavenger Flyer
MB/UB Clockwork Scrapyard
MU Scavenger Boss
W Zeke's Laboratory (unused steam fortress - maybe enabled with some techs/units/spells or maybe instead the Power Plant can be a W for increased production due to weaker units as well as some more techs/units/spells. Another change could be Zeke's Lab as another MB or UB as this subnation is weaker and could use more things.)


Venucci
H Doge
H Pulitore
H Mauricio (Prison Warden of Dirsi)
RU Elite/Doge Guards
RU Doge Walker
RU Super/Doge Cannon or Rocket Launcher
RU Demolition Truck
RU Venucci Guards
RU Chicken Rider
UB Glorious Statue
UB Ammo Depot (some kind of bonus or produces demolition trucks and Poli (Master of Munitions))
MB Doge's Hammer/Doomcannon (there is also a Pulsecannon so there are 3 different master cannon weapons, maybe the other 2 could be given to other subnations)
MU Land/King Leviathan
W Doge Square (healing and population bonus)

--There are also the 5 Venucci Lords from Dirsi prison:
Paolo (Praetor of Venucci)
Isaia (Censor of Venucci) (a joke but he could have a spell that "shuts up" units by stunning them, a stun power haha)
Marco (Quaestor of Venucci)
Giovanni (Tribune of Venucci)
Poli (Master of Munitions) (could be given demolition spells/units or be used with Ammo Depot somehow)
- These guys don't have horses but the tradeoff could be powerful spells versus weak hitpoints/no mounts


Condotierri/Vinci Lords
H Don Sclario (Don of Feligno)
H Rocco (Lord of the Wasteland/Piavasso)
H Dante (Rogue Viscount of Tarona)
H Giancarlo (Baron of Umberto)
UB Condottieri Barracks/Heretic Outpost (in scenario editor)
RB Condotierri Outpost/Camp
RB Inn/Meeting House
RU Condottieri Soldiers
RU Condottieri Knight
RU Condottieri Dragoon
RU Condottieri Cannon
MU = (? maybe one of the master cannons or just strength of numbers or maybe one Ultra/Juggernaut or Prototype/Laser Tank or another MB - the Power Plant for increased production due to weaker units as well as some more techs/units/spells)
W Condotierri Castle (could be given units/spells/techs)
- Supply unit? Dirigible or Truck
- Even though the Vinci Lords aren't technically Condotierri, without them there are no readymade Condotierri heroes. By themselves the Lords would have mixed armies (Dante had Cuotl Death Snakes in the campaign) so it's possible to break these two down into 2 separate subnations and then the Vinci will have 6 possible subnations like the Alin and Cuotl. Another idea is that the unlabeled Vinci Lord unit in the scenario editor could be edited to make more heroes so since the campaign features the Forzi and Montuchio fighting over the castle those names could be used as generic Condotierri horse heroes, example: Forzi or Forzi Condotierri.


2 Alin

Sand Magic
H Dahkla
H Belisari
H/UU Narr Saghir
UU Magi (Sand spell only - maybe the Magi unit can be divided into 3 types based on the 3 Sand, Fire and Glass spells it has)
RB Circle of Sand
RB Sand Spire
RU Sand Manta
RU Sand Horror (can be "built" from sand spires/buildings as additional "seek and destroy" defense sort of like mines around a building)
RU Dune Manta
RU Dune Seekers
RU Dune Scorpion
UB Trading Post/Center (Sand Magi can be trained here)
MB Sand Citadel (enabled with spells/techs/units)
MU Thuran (he had no spells in the campaign)
W = (? some kind of oasis or ancient ruin, there's also a Lesser/Greater/Idol - some unused Alin building in the scenario editor, enabled with units/spells/techs)
- There are Dune units used above which could be used as sand themed units instead of the regular Sand units.


Fire Magic
H Damanhur
H Arri (she is actually Mistress of Fire Magic besides The Glass Hunter)
UU Magi (Fire spell only)
RB Circle of Fire
RB Eternal Flame
RU Rukh
RU Afreet
RU Fire Elemental
RU Fire Scout
RU Juvenile/Adult/Elder Salamander
RU Lava Shrike
RU Fire Golem
RU Lava Spider
RU Molten Afreet
UB Trading Post/Center (Fire Magi can be trained here)
UU Wild Juvenile/Adult/Elder Salamander
MU Master Fire Golem
W Queen Salamander Nest (enabled with units/spells/techs or just the queen as a defensive building which also could spawn units occasionally or on queue)
- It seems the Fire Magic Alin get all the Salamanders, the Wild ones belong to the Queen and she's a fire unit so they kind of all go under the fire theme


Glass Magic
H Andromolek
H Avaris the Alin Genie
UU Magi (Glass spell only)
RB Circle of Glass
RB Glass Citadel
RU Glass Spider
RU Glass Heartseeker
RU Glass Cannon
RU Marid
RU Glass Scorpion
RU Glass Horror (again as building defense)
RU Marid
RU Glass Spider
RU Glass Heartseeker
RU Glass Cannon
RU Elder/Giant Spider (there are 3 big glass spiders: Elder, Giant and Bazek the Spider Queen so maybe like the Vinci cannons these spiders could be spread around the subnations, Glass Magic could get the regular spider and Dark Glass gets Bazek)
UB Trading Post/Center (Glass Magi can be trained here)
MB (? As there is no Glass Citadel version of the Sand and Fire Citadels and no other major buildings I don't know what could be used or the Elder/Giant spider will be a second MU to replace a MB)
MU Elder/Glass Dragon
- You could also combine Glass Magic with Triad Magic since the "triad" use glass magic


Triad Magic
H Acerbus the Mystic with Relic
H Giacomo (Desert Walker)
H/UU Avaris the Alin Genie
UB Trading Post/Center (Magi can be trained here)
UU Magi (with all 3 spells)
RU Desert Walkers
RU Heartseeker
RU Scorpion
MB/MU Floating Castle
W = if combined with Glass Magic, then Floating Castle can be the Wonder as the Glass Dragon is the Master Unit
- This is the only group to get the regular Sand circle units so far as the rest have their own themed units
- You could also combine Glass Magic with Triad Magic since the "triad" use glass magic


Dark Glass/Dark Alin
H Sawu
H Marwan
H Theben/Memphis/Kharga/Mendes/Baharya/Buto (all 6 alone or these can be combined into 1 dark genie that could be scripted to respawn with a new name each time it dies)
RB Glass Citadel
RB Circle of Glass
UB Dark Spire
UB Glass Lair
RU Dark Genie
RU Dark Walkers
RU Marid
RU Glass Scorpion
RU Glass Horror (again as building defense)
RU Glass Spider
RU Glass Heartseeker
RU Glass Cannon
MB (? As there is no Dark/Glass Citadel version of the Sand and Fire Citadels and no other major buildings I don't know what could be used...)
MU Bazek the Spider Queen
W = (? maybe a part of Mezekesh, again there are no major Dark Glass buildings besides the Lair and Spire so maybe those 2 could be MB and W enabled with units/techs/spells)


Dark Alin Genies
H Theben
H Memphis
H Kharga
H Mendes
H Baharya
H Buto
RB Circle of Glass
RB Glass Citadel
UB Dark Spire
UB Glass Lair
RU Marid
RU Dark Genie
RU Dark Walkers
RU Glass Scorpion
RU Glass Horror (again as building defense)
RU Glass Spider
RU Glass Heartseeker
RU Glass Cannon
MB (? Again as there is no other major building I don't know what could be used...)
MU Elder Glass Golem
W = (? Again as there is no other major building I don't know what could be used...)
- Like the Vinci Lords these guys can be a group unto themselves or combined with another such as Dark Glass Alin in this case


3 Cuotl

Death God
H Czin
H High Priest (given more hitpoints like a hero)
RU Guardians/Defenders/Sentinels
RU Death Sphere
RU Elite/Death Snake
UB Dish Gate (could be enabled as force field walls powered by Dish Power Nodes)
UB Dish Power Node (the equivalent of the Vinci Power Plant maybe)
UB Dish Hatch/Dish Turret/Turret (defensive tower building)
Matter Transmuter (I was thinking this could be made into the equivalent of the Vinci calculator as the Alin and Cuotl don't have calculators and sometimes there gets to be too much wealth or energy)
MB Death Temple (with enabled spells/techs/units)
MU City of Vengeance
W Dish Center (with enabled spells/techs/units - this could be scripted to create, summon or spawn backup units as that what Czin was going to do in the campaign story so maybe some air units)


Storm Goddess
H Shok
H High Priest (given more hitpoints like a hero)
RB Great/Shrine
UB Pantheon
RU Guardians/Defenders/Sentinels
RU Eagle Bomber
RU Veteran/Elite/Quetzal Fighter
RU Elite/Storm Disk
MB = Rain Temple (with enabled spells/techs/units)
MU = (? Maybe that "Kuk Fighter Bomber" which I can't find in the scenario editor)
W = Crypt of Knowledge (with enabled spells/techs/units)
- could also enable the Mausoleum/Reliquary for something with enabled spells/techs/units)
- needs more work


Sun God
H Xil (with mirror Xils as additional weaker heros?)
H High Priest (given more hitpoints like a hero)
RB Great/Shrine
RU Guardians/Defenders/Sentinels
RU Veteran/Elite/Sun Jaguar
RU Elite/Sun Cannon
RU Elite/Sun Idol
MB = (? Maybe a modified Death/Moon Temple into Sun Temple with enabled spells/techs/units)
MU = Elite Sun Idol
W = Eye of the Gods (with enabled spells/techs/units)
- could also enable the Mausoleum/Reliquary for something with enabled spells/techs/units)
- needs more work


Moon God
H Ix
H High Priest (given more hitpoints like a hero)
RB Great/Shrine
RU Moon Sentinels
MB = Moon Temple (with enabled spells/techs/units)
MU = Moon Gorilla
W = Moon Core (with enabled spells/techs/units)
- could also enable the Mausoleum/Reliquary for something with enabled spells/techs/units)
- other Moon units? the equivalents to the Sun versions
- needs more work


Fallen Cuotl
H Kakoohla
RB Fallen Refuge (with some units or other enabled techs/units)
RB False Idol (summoned by High/Fallen Priest but may be enabled as a defensive tower?)
RU Fallen Idol
RU Fallen Sentinels
RU Fallen Warriors
RU Fallen Snake
RU Fallen Priest
RU Fallen Jaguar
RU Unholy Ark
Siege Elephant
MB = Fallen Refuge (with all possible units)
MU = Fallen Priest (given more hitpoints like a hero)
W = Stolen Artifact (with enabled spells/techs/units)
- The Fallen Cuotl can also be combined with Fallen Beserk and have multiple UU/MU and MB/W.


Fallen Beserk
H Giacomo (Moon God Walker)
H Yontash
RB Camp/Stockade
RB Cave
RB Shaman/Spirit Stones
RU Barbarians
RU Beserkers
RU Beserker Rider
RU Spiritchief (similar to Yontash)
RU Cave Bat/Cave Drake
MB = (? maybe just a Shaman Stone with some enabled spells/techs/units)
MU = High Priest
W = (? There's nothing really...)
- The Fallen Cuotl can also be combined with Fallen Beserk and have multiple UU/MU and MB/W.


Ok so that's the gist of it but I'm sure this could be tweaked and I'm probably missing some things besides some of the usual regular buildings but that's because for example the Cuotl Temple for air units - does only Shok get that or all of the Cuotl subnations but with various limits? So there's a lot of wiggle room for these subnations.

A side note: The problem with the Cuotl in general is that they are a combination of an alien and native nation so it's difficult to figure out what the Cuotl would be like before the fusion with alien technology. That and the fact that the game was unfinished not just without the Kahan and other nations but the Cuotl campaign and general storyline feels rushed and incomplete. So there's a lack of units, heroes, buildings, etc to make more balanced unique subnations with enough content.

For example Yontash is a Kahan hero and he was added to the Cuotl - it seems they ran out of time, ideas, etc so he was put in along with whatever Kahan units and buildings that were finished. The Vinci and Alin both have 2 female heroines while the Cuotl have only 1, Shok the alien Storm Goddess, it would have been nice to have seen another native Cuotl heroine, maybe "the Queen" of the Cuotl or another female warrior.

- About actually integrating these subnations into the game - I realize you probably can't make them selectable from the main menu in skirmish mode (without the modding option to do so) so as you said they will have to be added manually into any map, which is a pain to do.

To make things easier as I mentioned in a post above, we could probably just make 3 maps - 1 Vinci terrain, 1 Alin terrain and 1 Cuotl terrain. Since we have 5 subnations each plus the regular nation for a total of 6, then adding the 6 nations to a 6,7 or 8 player map might work - that way you could see all of them in action plus an optional regular nation slot and a human player slot.

So I can help out if shown how to do that when ready. Also making a guide can help people to add the subnations to any map in the future.

[This message has been edited by alincarpetman (edited 03-29-2014 @ 08:55 PM).]

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