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storm legion
Zekeling
posted 03-31-06 10:00 AM EDT (US)         
Okay, rather than the advanced strategy thread that has all of its detailed requirements, this is for us "normal" players, there are no requirements save two:

1) Must be a real strategy/strength/weakness/build order/other tactic

2) Something quite simple, eg: "If the enemy is teching up to a land leviathen and you are Alin, send out Desert Walkers here and whatnot"
not something like "Once you have 500 timonium on the map "DESERTBRIDGE" then make so many of these squads, use pythagoras to find if the enemy base can be reached by the hypotenuse of the lower military district and breeched between its tibia and fibia"
That kind of stuff is for the advanced stratagy thread in the "other" section

I've decided to just put all the stratagies that are entered up here so they're easy to get to, when giving stratagies try to make it as obvious as possible which army its for, or if its just general so that i can put it in a category.

(Any tips'n'tricks not written by me have their author's name on the end of it)


-During battles... MICRO! MICRO! MICRO! It's by far one of the best things you can pratice.
Good micromanagement proves that its not the amount or strength of your units, its how you use them. Such as simple things like moving out of AoE spells like Industrial Devastation and Sandstorm to cut losses. Also, moving wounded squads out from the front lines so you won't lose them. Having certain units target certain enemies, which as soon as you learn the correct counters becomes very helpful. The worst thing you can do is blindly drag box your whole army and move-attack in the middle of their forces.[I Am Hollywood]

-The "common knowledge" of the game is that Alin are rushers, while Vinci are boomers. I contend the opposite - that Vinci has a stronger early game, while Alin a stronger late game. It's worth noting that, dollar for dollar, Musketeers will completely destroy Desert Walkers. Also, the Vinci will bring CWM to the fight. CWM are countered by Afreets, which cost more and can be dealt with rather easily by Musketeers. Exacerbating this, Industrial Devastation is far, far more dangers than Summon Army, particularly early on. On the other hand, the Alin get intense upgrades, and by the end of the game their basic infantry are nigh-priceless.[Carloz]

-When you're on the defensive, you want to look for the "turning point" technologically. Once you get that, you should be able to press that advantage into a victory before the comp can deal with it. Most people think that the turning point is a master unit, but if you can afford to build a master unit you've already won in my book.[Carloz]

-For Vinci, it's Air Cruisers. Specifically, once you get 3, the enemy's basic infantry won't be able to brave the teeth you've got set up for them. 3 is kind of an arbitrary number, but that seems to be the point where you can kill three or four units in about second.[Carloz]

-For Alin, it's Glass Bolts. I cannot stress enough how important Glass Bolts is as an upgrade. As soon as you get it, you go from getting owned by Vinci infantry to owning them. It's a complete reversal.[Carloz]

- Weaknesses - Holding your cursour over the portrait (in the interface) of an enemy unit will tell you how best to counter it!

- Trample trample trample! - When in doubt, trample, trampling is almost always waaaaaay better than fighting normally.

- Keeping your kingdom - This part is really important, in your empire, there is no need to leave a few squads at each city, if your enemy attacks he will go all out, not send a few units to each base, so you need to find a mid-point from where you can reach all your cities quite easily, keeping your army together means it is very very strong, keeping it apart means you can hold off attacks until help arrives, but by the time help arrives, the original defenders will have been likely butchered and so useless to you.

- Dominances - These things are PRICELESS! Do you understand? PRICELESS! The ability to call in some pretty decent help is always welcome, to be able to heal a tonne a bunch of troops in an area is even better if you use a few really strong units. and of course, the ability to call a cease fire cannot be overestimated, say you are under attack at a city of yours which is undefended, your main army, you know is much bigger than the enemies, so you do the cease-fire, get to his army and follow them, pummel em so that he has no army once the cease fire is over. turning enemy troops to your side is also great, especially if your eney is someone like cuotl/vinci as most of their units are tough nuts.


-Fire elementals - Wow... so far from what we've found in a fair fight between an unupgraded juggernaut vs an unupgraded fire elemental the fire elemental will pwn! also good vs cuotl, you should have about 2 or 3 with your army at all times

-GLASS GOLEMS - massive damage, massive health, massive. get a few of these guys and round off all your excess timonium with upgrades and DW and you should be set to take on most thinks, the DW can wipe out infantry units while the golems can act as tank-hunters, they're also great for trample and with glass upgrades they will be unstoppable, just watch out for juggernauts however!

-Corruption:
For all those who haven't really figured it out yet, corruption makes every attack from a glass unit permanently reduce the enemies MAX health, and every new hit reduces their max health even more. So for instance, Vinci "Unit X" has 100 max health. A Glass golem hits "Unit X" once, "Unit X" has has taken 30 dmg, and had it's max health reduced by 10, so the unit is now at 70/90 health. The Glass golem attacks again, now "Unit X" is at 40/80 health. And so forth.[I Am Hollywood]

-With the alin, I would try building a military district and filling up your mining site first always, then set the scout to auto-explore, get a caravan going and explore with your starting units. so far i've found the best time to get a hero is a little after you've captured your first city and added 1 or 2 dstricts to it, and get a second mine just before you attack your first city.

-For alin heroes themselves...

SAWU - glass scimitars is great at level 2/3 for mowing down infantry, plus he doesnt take damage for trampling with them. summon marids is pretty decent if you need anti-air fast. glass prison is amazing! a permanent prison for enemies! plus it can make a MAJOR difference in a battle when the enemy finds their juggernauts are covered in glass (plus that screeching noise is just darn scary and ear-splitting) glass spider is... just wow, trampling wipe out everything, infantry gone in one hit, major damage, brilliant. plus the timonium bonus is really great

DAMANHUR - (i think thats how you spell it) good good good, fast, flying, strong. getting the size increase spell is great, just make sure you cast any other spells you want to before using it as you cant cast spell in this form. fire elemental spell is great stuff, i never got to see it fully upgraded but, if you're going up against an infantry army, then this thing could crush the lot of em with minimal damage to itself. not to mention the ability can be upgraded to allow you to summon more elementals. after this, theres the summonable salamanders, perfect for taking out ground units, and once upgraded they're pretty darn deadly too. the fire blast spell is good, but watch out, it hits your own units as well

DAKHLA - the sand warden, his resource cap bonus is nice as you will almost always be getting an excess of timonium in your vaults. the free scorpian is great for doing some good ol' trampling of course. wind defence is great for when your soldiers are still melee, just cast it on the enemy and let your troops run into it, they'll stay in it because they have to fight and so get the ranged defence bonus. summon sand horrors can be deadly if used at the right moment, since they are tough to kill (unless they are attacking on their own, in which case the enemy can just focus fire) they can wreck havoc behind enemy lines while you fight from the front, they'll send enemy troops flying thus stopping them from shooting and doing a good deal of damage as well. personally i dont think this one is *absolutely* neccesary, if you have an excess of resources then go for it, it can certainly help, but it's not worth saving up all your resources for (you could spend it better on upgrades, more units, districts etc) his ultimate, dune devils is a great spell, if you already have a glass dragon then you should be getting it, otherwise wait till you do. simply running into an enemy army with Dakhla and casting the spell will greatly tilt the balance of power in your favour, but make sure you use it at the right moment, when all of the enemy armies are using the majority of their army. but instead, you should really aim to get the sandstorm ability upgraded as much as possible, that one ability can wipe out entire armies with the damage it does. just make sure you get a good number of units covered. sand storm is no longer that neccesary as it was in the first demo since it was... *slightly* overpowered :P

- Tip - i try and keep at least 2 scorpians in all my games with my army, 1 is not enough, the enemy can focus fire and butcher it, 2 is good because they can cover each other, any more and it just gets better and better (though i wouldnt go above 5, that costs too much usually)

- Research - at the start its usually best to get the economy line or the evocation line for the alin, the economy will give you an unlimited supply of income, the evocation will give you a handy little army for attack and defence

- Why train when you can get freebies? - once you get the military line upgraded, it can be more effeciant to produce sand circles rather than build desert walkers etc. so either do some quick calculations in your head or try to figure out how much time you got left (if little, better to go with the sand circles)

- desert archers - its best to get the desert walkers ranged attack upgrade asap, because otherwise only a few can actually fight at a time

- whirling blades - DONT turn this on near a vinci hero! the doge especially as his mega blaster will prolly wipe you out completely, and don't do it if there are trampling units nearby either

- flying crystal ball - the air elemental that comes out of the magic box that can transport units should be used often, maybe not so much in single-player, but n multi-player there's nothing like unloading a gigantic army from a pair of sparkly red orbs


JUGGERNAUTS - does what it says on the can, virtually invlunerable (watch out for golems!) amazing trample, amazing damage and firing while moving, if ever there was a unit to boom towards, this would be it (unless you're aiming for land leviathen of course)

Giacamo - One of the best heros in the game for a microer, his abilities also make him especialy good for someone who prefers the turtle style of play. His final ability can be used to turn the tides of battles or to easily hold out against an overwhelming force until help arrives because when you use it, while not being destructive, it gives an AoE that makes some of your troops invincible for a reasonable amount of time. His other abilities range from very useful, to not so much. THe first ability he gets is IMO his best, it gives a significant heal to allied troops in a decent sized area, his second ability, while not doing significant damage, does nock over and stun enemy troops for a short duration. His third ability is most useful against large units and buildings, as he summons several demolition clockwork men that are like slightly worse infested terran from Starcraft. His bonuses are for lovers of CWM (clock work men). He increases the effectiveness and lowers the price of clockwork units. He also gives one bonus research point per lvl. [ZalTorin]

The Doge - better called the hero assassin because of his Pain ray ability. The doge is the Vinci's Damage hero, capable of dealing massive amounts of damage to any unit or structure. Once fully upgraded, his Pain ray ability can oneshot most any hero execpt for lvl5s and afew lvl4s. His other three abilities are just as good. He has noxious cloud for dealing with infantry units and amassed infentry though it will not be nearly as effective aginst human players as they will most likly move ther troops out of the cloud. His anti-building is the seige laser, which can be used to reduce even most cities with just that abilities use. His super ability allows him to call an artillery strike from the Doge Hammer, this calls in three or so shells that deal a massive AoE capable of delivering damage nearly twice that of the dust storm ability belonging to Dakhla. THe doge gives bonuses to the troops built in the doge statue and to the steam fortress units except the land liviathen [ZalTorin]

Lenora - The Vinci flying hero, she gives you bonuses to your gold income, and has one of the most entertaining hero abilities avaible, the pirate ability alows her to take command of several enemy units at a time, turning tides of battles and allowing you to have fun doing it. her other abilities can also let you have fun as well. Like the Alim flyer, she has a booster that increases her movement speed, her attack, and her health, while also making her plane look freaking cool. She is one of the best units for air supremcy players due to her bonuses to Vinci air units and her third power. Airburst devesates kills most any air units and can be used to nuke air heros as well. He final ablity is a killer AoE and great for destroying towns, as it is a multi-bomb mine thing.[ZalTorin]

- Never under estimate the telescope upgrade for the research lab, a permintant line of sight drawn form the building in any direction, crossing the whole map can be very handy [ZalTorin]

-The doom cannon, should be a master unit due to its power, while it is expinsive, it can obliterate any city with a single shot, but the most effective in combination with the telescope as you wont need to risk any troops to draw a beed on your choosen target. [ZalTorin]

- As any face you got to control the air! as vinci use pirta flyers for air to air and upgrade the air crussier so they have the bombardment tactic. With 3 of those on air bombardment i capped a city in like 30 sec. And when they sommoned an air hero it only took 2 pirita flyers to bring him down. [Chicken1010]

- Using the Clockwork men to trample works pretty stinking well :P I mowed down a unit or two with just one, and he didn't lose a terrible ammount of health... They'd be good guards against AI when he sends a couple of infantry to take a camp. [JediJacenSolo]

- Leviathan - it can move and shoot so move and shoot. it can trample so move and shoot and trample. it can burrow so burrow, move, shoot and trample. it can repair itself so burrow, move, shoot, trample and repair. it can annihilate one target so burrow, move shoot, trample, repair and blast the sucker that gets too close

- Ultra-juggernauts, these are the vinci equivelent of the elder salamanders, in other words a few of them can make up for a lack of a titan unit on your side, the huge trample is nice of courseso grind their bones to make your bread

- Prototypes, play the game on easy a few times, keep the enemy cornered but not killed (use turrets to make a perimeter) and then explore the possibilities of the prototypes, heck you may even want to note them down somewhere (and the order in which they come) no doubt a lot of people would find that helpful. but you yourself could plan your research movement, plus knowing what stage the prototypes can make a major difference to your army power can help a lot


-Remember! The Cuotl ultimate race ability can move, this is great for stopping somone who has massed infantry and has them all crowded together, plus the fact that if they try to escape then you can move the ability and follow them!

- Use 4+ death spheres when the cuotl are facing the alin (best on Summer's Heat Map) to charge down in a line through enemy territory. Set their stance to patrol, and DO NOT select any target's, just move them down in a line in the main part of enemy territory. This massacres alin foot units. [Evolved]


-The Elder Glass Golem built from Dark Glass neutral sites has a passive ability called Tear Wounds. The description basically says that each consecutive attack by this unit does FIVE times the previous. So basically this super unit was built for taking out other
super units.[I Am Hollywood]



Quote:

The Mechanical Rush (For Summer Heat) :


This can be tinkered to fit your personal style,
but this rush is best utilized very early on,
a little while before a large city has been established.

It requires more Wealth early game, and very little timonium, so don't worry about securing additional mines.

Start off by building an Industrial District and Market.
Of course have your scout search for resource bonuses.
Build a research lab behind the base.

Now that you've got your basic economy set up.

Build a Military District and a barracks.
Upgrade the research lab to the Borehole set for Wealth.

Make sure you have gotten the Protolabs CW Sniper
Start pumping out several CWM.
And pick a hero (preferably Lenora IMO)

As soon as you have 3 - 6 CWM and your hero is almost complete,
make a beeline for the enemies starting city.

Meanwhile, your muskateers can attempt to cap another city,
and you can attempt to make your first Palace district.
Also try if you can to have enough industrial districts to
research Zeke as soon as you have your first large city.
All of this should be pretty easy considering you haven't been
building any muskateers, only CWMs.

Ok, so thats all happening at your base.
At the enemies base, he's probably throwing a hero and several
groups of infantry at you.
Luckily, CWMs can tear apart most infantry and the hero should go down
quickly if you focus fire with Lenora and the CWMs.

As soon as most of the defenders are down, take down nearby barracks
and hero spawns, and start on the city.
CWM's have a very good early siege attack, so a city should go pretty quick.
Also, if you're enconuntering some resistance at this point,
you may want to upgrade your Borehole for an increase in wealth.

As soon as Zeke is built fly him in,
His siege and battle forms will help immensely.
Meanwhile keep filtering CWMs and bring in your muskateers if you'd like.


[I Am Hollywood]


Quote:

if you want strats for alin here is one of mine

at the start:
magus district
get your mine makeing 2 miners
research tresure
get your three DW squads beside nearest neutral settlement
get a merchant
set fire scout on auto explore

after that:
merchant district
fill up second mine
research land lore 1 and vigor 1

after that:
military district
build a mine at your second mineing site

after that:
attack and conquer nearest settlement with your 5 desert walkers (unless they also have 5 units defending, in qhich case, maybe wait for a hero)
get a hero as soon as you can (reccomend SAWU)

after that:
get hero and desert walkers to heal
repair new city
build magus district at new city
build sand spire

after that:
research mystic mines
get a sand circle ready, but dont tell it to make anything unless the enemy attacks, this is your fail safe
upgrade sawu's summon marid ability
upgrade sawu's scimatar ability

after that:
get the large city as soon as you can, but DONT SAVE UP, you get it when you are ready, carry on doing normal things like buildings more mines and conquering sites etc.

after that:
get glass citadel
get glass circle
get that glass golem build ASAP (this is where i got attacked by quite a large army in the game, the glass golem will REALLY help turn the tide of war)

after that:
pump out glass golems, once you have 4 use extra timonium for desert walkers and with wealth either upgrade hero or get unit upgrades (especially for your golems, not one should die)

from here on you have a decent foothold, the golems are deadly in every aspect and can be pumped out well once youve researched enough tresure and have enough merchant districts, but i dont reccomend building a eternal flame until later, unless you really need something from there



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[This message has been edited by Shala (edited 06-03-2006 @ 02:40 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Joeking14
Zekeling
posted 04-22-06 05:12 AM EDT (US)     51 / 111       
So you don't need the levels to post information on the heroes.

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storm legion
Zekeling
posted 04-22-06 08:19 AM EDT (US)     52 / 111       
hmmm okay i guess... since it's only the abilities and other general info about them that gets posted

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storm legion
Zekeling
posted 04-26-06 11:45 AM EDT (US)     53 / 111       
updated with glass golem

so now this needs the following things:

-cuotl heroes info, abilities/strengths/uses etc
-cuotl basic tips'n'tricks, using subjugation, economy handling, micro-ing, cloaking, shielding etc
-more "start tactics", basically your build order


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GRUNT
Zekeling
posted 04-26-06 12:08 PM EDT (US)     54 / 111       
Given how Dhakla is kinda messed up in the demo, I've been using Sawu. I'm rather fond of him, in fact- he's been my favourite Alin hero since the start :P. He also has great synergy with your preference to glass golems. Since Sawu spawns Glass Spiders, I find it easier to swing into a glass-orientated army with him than with Dhakla- the extra glass spiders just come naturally .

Wow, I actually went all the way down the evocation line first this game, then I slapped down 2 of each circle in my territory bordering the comp's. Damn! The amount of units I got . Then to top it all off, I used my craft dominance AND Summon Army.

Sawu is really complements glass-themed armies since he himself uses glass magic :P. I'm not sure if Madrids and Glass Spiders benefit from the Glass Citadel upgrades. In battle, I find his glass prison thingy to be quite useful. Sometimes I get lucky and I can lockdown a group of clockwork men or spiders with it. Makes my life a LOT easier, but I wish I had a more reliable spell like Industrial Devastation :P. His aura of swords is also a neat damage boost...and sometimes it's useful just because it doesn't require much micro to be good, which frees you up to micro other units in your army.

Hehe, I decided it was time to stop using Dhakla when he killed my Greater City of Vengeance with that one sandstorm spell :P. My city died in a matter of SECONDS! :P


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storm legion
Zekeling
posted 04-26-06 12:15 PM EDT (US)     55 / 111       
well come friday hopefully i can update all the bogus tips ive got up (eg Dakhla)

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Timeless_OmO
Zekeling
posted 04-26-06 02:23 PM EDT (US)     56 / 111       
How much is Dhakla's Sand Storm spell out of whack? It's insane now, but if you read the description, it seems to start out about as weak as Giacomo's knock down spell. 50 damage and knock down with DoT in radius of the storm. Based on that, it seems the spell is COMPLETELY broken.

His Sand Horrors pwn, though.

Overall, I prefer Sawu, but I think Dhakla looks cooler.

GRUNT
Zekeling
posted 04-28-06 08:50 AM EDT (US)     57 / 111       
Bleh, I got slaughtered by the Vinci on tough :P.

Things looked good at first- I was coming with a decent army including 2 glass golems, and besides the usual couple clockwork men and 2 steam cannons, he had 1 juggernaut. I thought: "ok good, 2 glass golems is scarier than 1 juggernaut", but when I used Sawu's glass prison to lockdown his steam cannons and clockwork men, and focus fired on his juggernaut, I was dismayed. The Glass Golems did only marginal damage to it even though both were blasting it (with help from Sawu). I thought I heard somewhere that they made good tank hunters :P. Suffice to say, even though I used my resource dominance on my glass golems, they both died (killed the juggernaut eventually) but I lost the battle. From there, it was a downhill fight . That juggernaut wasnt even upgraded...I could tell because its guns werent glowy :P.

Then I played as the Vinci. I'd never fought against anything tougher than 'easy' with them, but I went straight for a 'tough' Alin opponent. I was suprised at how EASY it was for me to win vs how much I struggled with the Alin vs the Tough vinci, even though I had so much more experience with the Alin.

Whether I'm Vinci or Alin, I tend to go defensive-boom. I just got the Doge and Musketeers early in the game (backed up by the usual clockwork men), teched to bunker fort, got 2 juggernauts, and proceeded to own. I mean damn, when the comp used 'summon army' I barely even noticed it. Industrial devestation is just SICK. I trapped his army then trampled it to death. The best part was that the comp was using Dhakla, and even though the rigged sandstorm spell did lots of damage, I still won. It was THAT easy.

Now given how TGE and everyone else say that the game is balanced, I don't doubt it. What I'm saying is that the Alin seem to be a lot harder to play than the Vinci :P. I was hoping that the Alin would be a 'brute force' race, and that I can just rely on numbers to put me on even footing with the superior firepower of the other races, but I guess not =/.

When I play as the Alin, my units always never seem to do enough damage to whatever it is the enemy has- I feel I need to build very specialized forces to counter exactly what the enemy builds. I also need to micro like hell with the Alin- a side that I thought could just throw troops at the enemy without as much regard as the other races because they;re cheap and expendable. With the Vinci, a ground force of musketeers, some clockwork men as meatshields, and a few Juggernauts and I'm set. I countered everything :P.

As the Alin, when the enemy used the army dominance or something, I'd have to micro my guys like crazy just to barely stay alive. WIth the Vinci, I hardly have to micro at all...just snipe the enemy hero with pain ray, cast Industrial Devestation, let my juggernauts trample the enemy (and those disgusting machines can shoot while moving) and just watch. Once the army's dead, march to his base and use laser siege- GG.

I don't get it...as the Alin, I play as quickly and as efficiently as possible just to keep my head above the water. But playing as the Vinci, I can stop to read what some buildings and units do every now and then and STILL win.

I'm just at a lost as to how to beat the Vinci as the Alin. I mean, if it is so easy to defeat them as the Vinci, why can't I do it the other way around? =/ I'm definitely missing something- I just don't know what )=.


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[This message has been edited by GRUNT (edited 04-28-2006 @ 08:56 AM).]

LordAvenger
Zekeling
posted 04-28-06 09:18 AM EDT (US)     58 / 111       
Hmm glass golems tend to counter juggs. At least that is what info screen says And I believe that in demo version Vinci is OP and it is being fixed in beta.
GRUNT
Zekeling
posted 04-28-06 09:50 AM EDT (US)     59 / 111       
Phew, that's good to hear that Vinci are OP in the demo :P. Anyway, with people like El_Capitan balancing the game, I have no doubt that it'll be a balanced game .

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[This message has been edited by GRUNT (edited 04-28-2006 @ 09:55 AM).]

ennui
Zekeling
posted 04-28-06 07:24 PM EDT (US)     60 / 111       
hmm, I guess I am on the opposite side from GRUNT in my impressions so far.

I sought to learn vinci first and it is now quite easy to beat a "tough" alin.

but I tried one game as alin against a tough vinci, and I literally rolled him from the first minute or two. Though I have to admit I used the bugged sand spell, so maybe if i dont do that it will be more challenging. But once desert walkers have glass bolts they are quite strong. I like scorpians more than any of the vinci barracks units (in fact I have been skipping barracks and steam factory lately and winning in around 15 min).

I will have to play alin more before I can legitimately comment on them, but first impression is that they are plenty strong.

GRUNT
Zekeling
posted 04-28-06 08:47 PM EDT (US)     61 / 111       
How do you play your Alin? Like, what order do you get your districts in, what units you get and stuff- share your strat with me .

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ennui
Zekeling
posted 04-28-06 10:28 PM EDT (US)     62 / 111       
this will sound pathetic, but all I did was mass desert walkers with glass bolts, and pour my wealth into upgrading dakla and the summoner guy. Used summon army to roll my first expansion, met the comp opponent at a nuetral, whipped his ass with sandstorm and just kept up mommentum after that.

Desert walkers are cheap, and with glass bolts seem way more powerful than musketeers.

Since I had 2 upgrdaded heroes and massed desert walkers, I just mixed in a few dragons for the final push. But tbh, dont think I even needed them.

GRUNT
Zekeling
posted 04-28-06 10:34 PM EDT (US)     63 / 111       
Ok, I'll just try massing DW next time :P. But early in the game, I thought they'd compete with the miners for timonium. That is, you need to build more mines and miners to get cash, but if you're massing DW, thye take up timonium =/.

EDIT: Hehe, I tried your strat (yes I used the rigged Dhakla) but wow- what a reversal :P. I totally steamrolled the comp on tough :P. I used Wind Fortress gratuitously. The cooldown of that spell is very short, so I can keep spamming it, and it's invaluable since it makes my guys so damn fast, I can avoid Industrial Devestation once I hear the sound effect for it and the popup saying: "blah blah blah has activated Industrial Devestation" :P.

I didn't put a single point in the Evocation line...

EDIT again: Hmmmmm.....played again on the Summer Heat map, and got totally owned even though I was using Dhakla :P. The comp just had too many guys, they kept coming in waves . All my sandstorm would do was buy time, but damn.....I always feel outnumbered . I just don't get it.......Vinci feel so amazingly powerful......grrrrr......really hate Giacomo's invulnerability spell >_<.


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[This message has been edited by GRUNT (edited 04-29-2006 @ 03:31 AM).]

storm legion
Zekeling
posted 04-29-06 06:19 AM EDT (US)     64 / 111       
comp is easy to beat and whatever you do, dont mass DW only on higher difficulty, if you do you will have to rush the comp like there's no tommorrow, the moment he gets so much as heavy clockwork men you are finished. DW should always be worked into with other units, like i said before, they're the gravy with the chicken, on their own it can be pretty useless, but together they are great. i reccomend you try theis:

DW and glass golemds, you will be virtually undefeatable, pump extra wealth into golems and extra timonium into DW


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GRUNT
Zekeling
posted 04-29-06 06:42 AM EDT (US)     65 / 111       
The problem is that what do I do before I get glass golems? :P

It's not easy . Early in the game, I have DWs, and if I dont build other troops, I'll be on bad footing when the comp attacks me, and if I build troops, I'll be able to fend off the comp, but at the cost of my economy, and the opponent will inevitably get a large city before I do. Early in the game, DW compete with miners (I need to build lots of miners for a good econ) for Timonium, saving all my wealth for my hero's upgrades.

However, there comes this point where you're waiting for the 250 tim to get a large city, and you have all this excess wealth lying around with nothing to spend it on except heartseekers...and they aren't that great especially later in the game. With the Vinci, it's so much easier because Clockwork men RULE from the early to late game thanks to a steady stream of upgrades. All I need are Musketeers, Clockwork meh, then Juggs. I win. On the other hand, Heartseekers feel like they're made of paper....heck, my entire army does :P. I REALLY need to see replays, or help me by giving me a detailed battle report and stuff, and preferably while fighting either Giacomo or the Doge.

I mean, something is definitely not right....when I play as the Vinci, it's so damn easy to win....


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[This message has been edited by GRUNT (edited 04-29-2006 @ 06:42 AM).]

storm legion
Zekeling
posted 04-29-06 07:36 AM EDT (US)     66 / 111       
once more, it is the opposite for me, maybe you're just meant to be a vinci player? :P

if you want strats for alin here is one of mine

at the start:
magus district
get your mine makeing 2 miners
research tresure
get your three DW squads beside nearest neutral settlement
get a merchant
set fire scout on auto explore

after that:
merchant district
fill up second mine
research land lore 1 and vigor 1

after that:
military district
build a mine at your second mineing site

after that:
attack and conquer nearest settlement with your 5 desert walkers (unless they also have 5 units defending, in qhich case, maybe wait for a hero)
get a hero as soon as you can (reccomend SAWU)

after that:
get hero and desert walkers to heal
repair new city
build magus district at new city
build sand spire

after that:
research mystic mines
get a sand circle ready, but dont tell it to make anything unless the enemy attacks, this is your fail safe
upgrade sawu's summon marid ability
upgrade sawu's scimatar ability

after that:
get the large city as soon as you can, but DONT SAVE UP, you get it when you are ready, carry on doing normal things like buildings more mines and conquering sites etc.

after that:
get glass citadel
get glass circle
get that glass golem build ASAP (this is where i got attacked by quite a large army in the game, the glass golem will REALLY help turn the tide of war)

after that:
pump out glass golems, once you have 4 use extra timonium for desert walkers and with wealth either upgrade hero or get unit upgrades (especially for your golems, not one should die)

from here on you have a decent foothold, the golems are deadly in every aspect and can be pumped out well once youve researched enough tresure and have enough merchant districts, but i dont reccomend building a eternal flame until later, unless you really need something from there

hope this helps!


EDIT: updated


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[This message has been edited by storm legion (edited 04-29-2006 @ 07:42 AM).]

ennui
Zekeling
posted 04-29-06 11:31 AM EDT (US)     67 / 111       
quoted from GRUNT- "However, there comes this point where you're waiting for the 250 tim to get a large city, and you have all this excess wealth lying around with nothing to spend it on except heartseekers"


all that excess wealth can buy you expansions, which increases your army, which increases your econ. Other excess wealth should be pumped into your heros development.

Astronomical
Zekeling
posted 04-29-06 03:38 PM EDT (US)     68 / 111       
I never have excess wealth. I always have to save it up intentionally.

I've been raiding with a quick heartseeker/desert walker army (basically stealing someone's city capture by attacking them when the neutrals have weakened them)

Micro the desert walkers into their musketeers (ya gotta outnumber them obviously.. which isn't hard considering you get pretty much twice as many for free), and micro the heartseekers to focus fire on their clockwork men. This will fail if their clockwork men are numerous and/or they go straight for the desert walkers while the musketeers beat the heartseekers. It's kidna a crazy balance, always works vs. a computer, but against a human somtimes I only disrupt them and force them to have a small army. (Forcing someone to have a small army does mean you can spend more on non-military districts.. )


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Astronomical
Zekeling
posted 04-29-06 08:35 PM EDT (US)     69 / 111       
Just needed to point this out agian for emphasis.

Trample Trample Trample Trample Trample Trample Trample

Heros can trample in the small city phase, so do it


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storm legion
Zekeling
posted 04-29-06 09:05 PM EDT (US)     70 / 111       
i dont really reccomend trampling with heroes, unless they are lvl 2, or you have sawu with upgraded glass scimitars ability, it does quite a lot of damage to your hero by the trampling, against small groups it is okay, but don't tell your hero to run "the musketeer gauntlet" when he is still level 1, they will focus fire on him when they get up and he will take a lot of runs to do any decent damage to anything.

apart from that treample is always good (plus, the maximum upgraded glass scimitars ability for sawu is perfect for all trampling purposes )


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Astronomical
Zekeling
posted 04-29-06 11:06 PM EDT (US)     71 / 111       
I find it's still in your favor to draw fire and trample on a unit that can easily escape the musketeers regardless.

Pinning those Musketeers down is going to be much more favorable then letting them hit you and attacking from a distance. All the fire the hero takes will be drawn away from your own units as well, allowing them to do well enough.

Just don't over-trample and lose your hero.. hehe


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GRUNT
Zekeling
posted 04-30-06 06:58 AM EDT (US)     72 / 111       
I'm still losing to the tough comp even in the second demo.

I have reached the conclusion that I just really really suck :P.

You should mention in your guide that Juggernauts = GG >_<.

Actually, he only built 1 jugg that game.....what killed me was the endless tide of musketeers, spiders and clockwork men o_0. 6 Glass golems along with a horde of Desert Walkers hurling swords and shards of glass at everything that comes near should give you an idea of just how many Vinci there were o_0.

Oh, and for some reason, Rukhs die really fast :P. I was hoping they'd be more resistant to physical damage >_<. Fire Elementals rock early in the game, though. I tend to use them to round out my force before I get glass units. Fire Elementals take very little physical damage, so you'd be suprised how resilient they are even to clockwork spiders. If only the Alin had a decent meatshield unit early in the game that costed only wealth. The problem is that if I get heartseekers, they tend to stay behind the lines of Desert Walkers, then when my desert walkers die, I have to run them away, but if I have shock troops like clockwork men to charge in first and take damage, it'd cut down losses considerably. Unfortunately, Heartseekers are made out of paper, and everything else is an air unit. Scorpions are expensive, but...I suppose I could give them a shot....get a few scorpions....but ugh....all that timonium! .

EDIT: And even though Dhakla's bugged sandstorm was fixed, he's still an excellent hero! In fact, I kinda prefer him to Sawu because you can level up Dhakla early in the game with spells that are actually good- his Sandstorm spell. I mean, before a large city, all Sawu gets is Glass Scimitars (good), and Summon Marids (which isn't that great for the 150 wealth). Dhakla's sandstorm knocks back units! I didnt know it did that because in the first demo, it instantly killed stuff :P. But yeah, I'm also fond of Sawu ^_^. Damn, nobody likes the flying heroes :P.


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[This message has been edited by GRUNT (edited 04-30-2006 @ 07:09 AM).]

storm legion
Zekeling
posted 04-30-06 05:09 PM EDT (US)     73 / 111       
updated

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GRUNT
Zekeling
posted 04-30-06 07:35 PM EDT (US)     74 / 111       
"Watch out for Golems" is a bit of an overstatement :P. Glass Golems are one of the hardest-hitting Alin units so I guess they do decent damage to Juggs, but they're not a hard counter . Have you seen 2 unupgraded glass golems vs 1 unupgraded juggernaut? That's not a cost-effective counter =/. You might as well have put: 'watch out for glass dragons'.

Sorry, I'm a bit fed up with Juggernauts right now :P. Or at least how expensive Alin units seem to be for what they do :P.

I don't think they should ever make Alin units stronger because that'd take away from the 'superior numbers' theme- they should just tweak the costs of their units...


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[This message has been edited by GRUNT (edited 04-30-2006 @ 07:38 PM).]

Astronomical
Zekeling
posted 04-30-06 08:33 PM EDT (US)     75 / 111       
In terms of the Alin.. upgraded Fire Elementals are a seriously hard counter to Juggernauts and Air Destroyers... and Heros.

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[This message has been edited by Astronomical (edited 04-30-2006 @ 08:48 PM).]

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